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Mary

Which size gelatin capsule works best with the small balling gun?

Lori Hill

Nikki, The end of the balling gun needs to go to the back of the tongue, past the back teeth. It would be difficult to get the gun in much further, so it's easier than it sounds. You'll know if you haven't gone far enough because they'll either spit out or chew up the bolus. We usually dip the balling gun into water each time. Seems easier for them to swallow the bolus this way. We use an injectable wormer as needed, probably every 3 months. We watch the eye membrane color for signs of anemia.

Nikki

I have a question when using the small balling gun, how far down do you have to push the balling gun to get the pill in them? We have a lot of iron in our water and our goats cant get the copper they need so we are going to use the Copasure bolus. But not sure how to use the balling gun( or how far to push it down them). We now orally worm every three months. How often do you give the injectable?

Lori Hill

Nichole,

If their eye membranes are pink, you most likely don't have a problem with worms at the moment. That's good news! Like you, I've also found that different goats adapt differently to the same environment. They're a lot like horses....some are "easy keepers" and some aren't. You might find that some need to be dewormed and/or have their diet supplemented more than others. It sounds like you're on the right track!

Nichole

Another update...

I nearly finished off the farnam weight builder that I was giving in combination with the calf mana and pellets. My gal whose been here the longest thus far and is also the healthiest put on a good about of weight, though she wasn't missing much. It's amazing how easily she put it on and keeps it on all while being pregnant! My Saanen gal who was the reason for contacting in the first place has put on a good amount of weight as well and despite kidding a couple weeks ago (gorgeous white blue eyed baby girl!) not to mention she's a heavy producer and making over a gallon a day (I put the babies up and milk in the morning) plus ALL the babies (6) keep trying to get milk off her each chance they get, she's maintained the weight. She hasn't put on any more weight though so I'm not sure what else to give her to keep her gaining during lactation.... As for her coat it didn't do much till a week and a half ago when I gave her some cod liver oil in her feed, in a few days she seemed to have better looking skin and had more fur beginning to come in all over. Seeing the improvement, I gave her another dose after 3 days and again saw more improvement in skin and coat so now I'm planning to give it every few days. Her baby is growing like a weed as are the other babies (she even took in one of the triplets that Ginger had but refused to nurse) her little one is named Melody and is crossed with a nigerian dwarf so she's built stockier than the other dairy babes.

If goats are still having an issue with worms, wouldn't it stand to reason that those still are not sufficient in copper? Or is it that a goat needs to adjust to become accustomed to the worms on different properties, sorta like people with allergies when they go to a new place?

I don't think mine are dealing with worms necessarily since they are all red in the eyelids but I can't help but wonder what the difference is between my togg gal whose been here 1.5 years and my saanen gal whose been here nearly a year and not holding or putting on weight as well as the togg. I mean, I stopped giving my togg gal the feed since she'd gained again and hasn't lost a drop since stopping a couple weeks ago. She does well on browse so I choose not to supplement her with feed cause I want a herd of goats that aren't grain dependent.

Shelly Johnson

What is the milk withdrawal time with the dectomax

Nichole

So Lori, it's now been 16 days and I wanted to report back again to let ya know that my girl is really putting on weight now, she's still bony, but got some "meat" along her backbone now and it's starting to cover her bony hips, her ribs are also feeling more "meaty". She lost the fur all up her snout and it was bare, now there is peach fuzz growing over it, not all but about half so far, her fur is looking better too, I think she's got peach fuzz going under the coarse coat now since I can't see her skin as well now. Her udder has filled out more too so it looks like she'll probably kid within the next week or so and I'm hoping she gets more weight on before that and keeps putting it on after the baby is born. If she keeps gaining at this rate I expect her to look like a brand new goat in another month or so. My other goats who were thinner have also put the weight back on, a couple still needing more which I'm thinking is because they are also pregnant.

Anyhow, I just wanted to share, I'm so glad She is doing so well and the others are looking and feeling great, I appreciate your help and encouragement and will update again soon.

Thanks!!

Lori Hill

Nichole,

Sounds like you're making good progress! You can feed each goat up to 1/2 lb of Calf Manna per day, which is quite a bit of volume. It would be great if you could split off those that need it most and make sure they get their fair share in a second feeding. They'll be happy! My goats love the Calf Manna pellets.

Nichole

Well, it's day six and I have noticed a difference for my Saanen girl, not too much in weight just feels like theres a bit more along the back but today I pet her and noticed her fur felt softer. So far still brittle but going from rough to having a softer feel to it seems like a good sign to me and I just wanted to keep ya updated on it. I had one quick question to ask, do most people feed the calf manna only once a day or is it ok to feed the ones who need extra twice a day? Just curious if this could help her along a little more as I noticed her bag is starting to fill with milk and thought she may need something extra to help herself, grow the baby/babies AND fill her udder... Thanks!!

Lori Hill

Nichole,

Hopefully everyone will be healthy, fat and shiny in no time!

Nichole

Ok Lori, I got the copasure about 15 minutes ago and got each of them dosed up except the male cause he runs like heck when you try to get ahold of him and being preggo and all, well I'm not gonna chase him, He's the healthiest of the bunch anyways : ) Anyhow, I also stopped at the tractor supply and picked up the calf manna that you suggested along with some Farnam weight builder as I read stellar reviews from lots of horse owners, sure, it's meant for horses but apparently the flax in it is really good to use on horses that are hard keepers, so I figure it can't hurt anything but the wallet to add that in. I gave everybody a dose of both this morning, basically putting about 4 hands full of the calf manna in a big feed bowl with two scoops of the weight builder and some pellets too, mixed it up and let them all go at it. I'll do this everyday for the next month but am hoping to see some results in the next couple weeks based on info about each of the products. My Saanen is the one in need of most weight but the rest could use the help due to losing some weight in the winter. I'll post back here and keep you updated and I'll try to get some before and after pics to show the huge difference that all of this does.

Thanks so much for your help and I was really grateful for the phone call as well : )

Lori Hill

Nichole, I would expect the copper boluses to improve some of your issues. They should certainly improve any issues with barberpole worms, which are the worms that often cause anemia and death. You may have some other nutritional issues at play here too. If you've eliminated lice as a factor in the hair loss, we should look at nutrition next. I'm not familiar with the vitamin/mineral or nutrition content in molasses. It may contain too little or too much of a nutrient for this goat to tolerate. We've had good results turning around thin, poor growers by adding Calf Manna pellets and a quality goat mineral to their diets. Calf Manna is high in protein, and can help put on healthy weight fairly quickly. For goats, start slowly with up to 1/4 lb daily and work your way up to 1/2 lb daily. We give the goat mineral free choice. Either Purina or Manna Pro are good. I would suggest making the dietary changes somewhat slowly so that their bodies have time to adjust. Good Luck!

Nichole

I have a goat that I think is copper deficient, she's saanen and I just found out tonight that she's pregnant and I think that may explain the extreme hairloss she's gone through the past month or so. Her fur coat is terribly thin, I can see her pink skin with spots through the fur and the coat itself is very coarse almost and maybe even brittle like. She is thinner based on feeling along her spine, in that way her spine and hips are obviously bony feeling and looking but she seems to keep meat on her ribs just fine as I can barely see an indentation from them. When I got her she had hoof problems with her back hooves, they were mis-shapen one foot flailing out to the left and the other foot the toes curling in on themselves. I at first researched and read it was a zinc deficiency but tonight read that it's caused by copper deficiency. Half of my goats have issues with worms which I've struggled to control naturally. So my question is, does it sound like copper deficiency to you as well? Is it safe to give them all a copper bolus even the ones that appear to be healthy with the exception of weight loss which could be attributed to the winter and the fact that I don't feed grain but offer molasses free choice. I am unsure of my area and the deficiencies it may have but I'm in butler county ohio if that helps at all. I appreciate your input and the time to read this.

Nichole

Lori Hill

Michelle, It is not labeled for use in goats, but we use Dectomax Injectable. We give it as an SQ injection at 1.5 ml per 100 lbs. The combination of Copasure, with Dectomax as needed, is our preference. We've had virtually no sickness or anemia since switching to this program 3 years ago.

One more thought-we always deworm nannies with Dectomax within the first 48 hours after kidding, no matter when they were last dewormed.

Michelle Ruedy

What dose do you use for the Dectomax? Do you use any other wormers or is this the only protical you are using?

Lori Hill

Jenny, We have given it during pregnancy without incident. Most research studies use a dosage of 1 gm Copasure per 22 lbs body weight.

Jenny

Can you give copper bolus to a pregnant goat, due in March 2012? She has a bare tail end fishtail? Thanks

Lori Hill

Jim, We typically use Copasure in just adult goats. They weigh approx 100-125 lbs. We give one 12.5 gm bolus per adult. According to our veterinarian, "wow, that's plenty". Most studies are researching a dosage of 1 gm Copasure per 22 lbs body weight. Many people use this rate in kids and adults, and it may be a good starting point for you to consider. If we went with the researched dose, we would break down a 12.5 gm bolus and use about 1/2 bolus per adult. We have at times used the 1 gm per 22 lb rate in bigger kids. Generally, we've found that if you can break the life cycle of the barberpole worm by using Copasure in the adults, there are minimal viable eggs for the young kids to pick up.

Jim Taylor

What weight goat are you using the full 12.5 gram bolus with? What age/weight goat do you break down the bolus into a smaller dosage?

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